Interview with Ronnika Williams

 Interview by Amy Phillips

Amy Phillips: I talked with Ronnika about her Final 48 Project.  The “Final 48” refers to the last two days before her father died. I asked her why she decided to do it.

Ronnika WIlliams: I started doing it, I don’t even know if it was a year after his passing. The conversations [with my father] came up with one of my good friends, Kendra, who lives in Houston. I would say she was the friend  who actually helped guide me through the grieving process because she … lost her father maybe almost a decade prior. I told her that it was something about those last two days with my father that had me just: I always can recall vividly what those conversations were; not even just with him but with everyone surrounding me. Like, just a lot of things that happened, the smells, the places. I can just replay that over and over again. So, as I continue to talk to friends and family (actually Malika was one of the ones I talked to also!) about what those last two days look like with that person that you love.  It was almost like no other time mattered. But, no, I can remember where I was those last two days. Even if I wasn’t present when that person died, I still remember where I was those last two days of their life and how it has impacted me moving forward. 

So, I started the Final 48 Project because those stories gave me hope; they gave me strength during a time when I felt really broken. So I said if these stories are helping me, I can only imagine how they can  help others. I noticed that people in the black community just don’t talk about grief. It wasn’t just my family, it was across the board. It was just: we plan the funeral, we have the repass (the dinner after the funeral), and then we just go about our lives and we’re not talking about the person we lost. Yet, we’re living with that everyday. That was really the reason for me traveling the country collecting those stories because I really wanted people to see, especially online, that “I grieve too.” There is no correct way to grieve, you chose what’s best for you.

Another related reason is that my sister and I went to grief counseling and we noticed no one else in the room looked like us. I think that’s because historically we’ve been told, hey you keep it moving. I had to learn grief is universal but my story isn’t going to look like anyone else’s.

AP: Why do you think you and your sister sought out grief counseling despite the fact that it’s not common among black communities? 

RW: Well, at the time I relocated from Texas to Michigan. I was seeking a job through a temp agency and one of the job specialists asked me why I was in the area. When the specialist found out why I came back, she recommended I do grief counseling.   

So going to counseling: someone had to be brave in the  room. My sister said she wouldn’t have went on her own. In my family I’m the risk taker (but good risks). I knew I didn’t want to keep feeling like this so what was going to help? I knew no one could guide me through this, but I wanted a few tips. So, I told my sister I was going and she said I’ll go with you. So literally we locked arms and walked that journey together. So if no one else understood this journey, my sister did. We were both without a father.

AP: Why did you start your own publishing house and what are some of the titles of your books and where can we find them?

RW: It’s funny because a lot of my stories tie back to the 48! In that final 48 I gave my dad three promises: go back to grad school and graduate high honors; write children’s books and dedicate the first one to you; then I said I wanted to do documentaries to tell the stories of people in my community. I grew up in a small predominantly black community called Benton Harbor Michigan.

Even before pursuing library science and before that, history, I didn’t see a whole lot of characters who look like me. So I took a lot of my experiences and started writing about them, whether it was a blog or children’s books. I started using free resources that were offered by the library: “how to self publish” --okay yeah lemme sign up for this class. Even though I was still in library school, I thought, I can use an afternoon on a Saturday and learn how to self publish! 

I used my experience from when I was working at the Museum of the Confederacy (which is now the American Civil War Museum) in Richmond Va. From this and other internship experiences, it made me want to tell stories about history from all sides. 

So, when it comes to self-publishing:  I wanted to get the stories out there but I didn’t want to beg for acceptance to tell my stories. 

Now, the Adventures Alleykats: The first book is called The Missing President and can be found on Amazon. Also at some black owned independent bookstores like The Listening Tree in the Atlanta area, and Hakim’s in Philadelphia. These books are intended for ages 7-11

“Everyone has a story. You just have to be brave enough to tell it.”

AP: Tell us about your podcast.

RW: Everyone who knows me knows I talk in stories. So, the best thing is doing a podcast, all around storytelling! 

Pleasedotell is in its third season.  The first season was more about her story, allowing listeners to get to know me. The 2nd season was a dedication to my hometown. It was called “Everyday People of 49022”. 

The third season is “What’s your why?” It’s stories that shaped who we are. The thread of these stories is the pivotal moments are trauma, grief, loss in various areas. The stories about how you triumph over conflicts and difficulties.

You know, in one of the threads, I was talking about all the twists and turns in arriving at my December graduation [for my second masters degree]. I had a lot of struggles. I had a grease fire in my house. I lost my father. I got my dream job, then moved there to start, then I moved back home, and then I had imposter syndrome. I’ve taken too much time off of this degree, how am I going to finish?!

AP: How do you get people on your podcast?

RW: The first season I didn’t really have any guests. The second season we partnered with a local

health care system. I had a team of researchers, we tapped into their network and talked to people about influence, power and leadership.We put out a call to action asking people what does your “why” look like. How can your “why” help someone else?

So this season was selective, who was going to share what their “why” is?

AP: In terms of that episode, were you thinking of it as outreach to people of color? Trying to get more people to feel more comfortable making appointments for therapy or even making them aware that that was a legitimate way to explore their grief or issues. Would that be tied to your experience of going to grief counseling with your sister and being the only women of color there?

RW: Absolutely. In my consulting for the local health care system, one of things that cropped up during the covid pandemic was: how to take away barriers for people of color to seek mental health care? One way was offering free mental health services. So, the Center for Better Health, which is in downtown Benton Harbor has therapists, wll of whom are people of color. So, I pulled a clip from my episode and sent it to the Center for Better Health so they could play it and let people know they’re being encouraged by members of their community to use the free services. 

AP: What is an “ancestral archivist”? What is it? Where is it going?

RW: I got the name ancestral archivist from two guys who are my friends. Well, I like family trees. Even my dad and grandpa used to say, when we’d bring friends over, “Who’s their people? Who are they related to?” We’re so connected. An example is the Great Migration, when people were moving from the South to the Midwest - you know? People were moving because a cousin or a friend told them about a job, etc. 

Even online, I’m always like, “I know who that is, they’re this person’s sister, etc.” So, even people online started calling me an ancestral archivist! You know I’m obsessed with yearbooks! People will want to sit down with me and have me help them with their family trees. Instead of going online doing it themselves, they say, no! I want to work with you!

Now, where do I see “ancestral archivist” going? There are many communities of color, we want to find out where we come from. I’m talking to the elders in my community - collecting their stories before we don’t have them around anymore. Family histories are connected to other family stories. 

When I was working at the Museum of the Confederacy, I wanted to find out where the community was, where they hung out. So, there is the black community at Shockoe Bottom and I would go and hang out there. When I’d tell people where I worked they would ask “why the hell are you doing there?” My answer was: well, our story is there too, it’s there in the archives. I told them, every summer I find more black history in the archives. No one thought to look through the wife of Jefferson Davis, Varina’s papers, but, that’s where all the black history is! In her papers there was a letter from Jefferson Davis’s brother, who lived in Mississippi. His brother told Jefferson Davis that he was going to give his land to one of his slaves, Isaiah Montgomery. Isaiah’s son was Ben Montgomery, who started a city in Mississippi, Mound Bayou. 

AP: Tell us about your master’s degrees. You received them after your father passed. 

RW: Before I started the library degree, I was in the graduate program for history. Because of the grease fire, which happened during my second semester of the program - a year afterward, I had to have surgery. So, I had to drop classes or take incompletes. I didn’t know about submitting paperwork to change the incompletes, I ended up getting an F for a class. 

So, a friend told me to contact my professor to change the grade. He said I could take a summer class but I had to pay for it. After the class was completed, I decided to move to North Carolina. I wanted to finish grad school, but no longer get a history degree. Some of my grad classes were in public history which were a requirement in the archives program in the School of Library Science. So, I decided to finish the library program in a year. My advisor made me a grad assistant to help pay for it. I had to take German at the community college. I did it in two semesters - I did it in a year. 

AP: What has been the most rewarding experience in your career so far. 

RW: The history and library degree allowed me to find family that I did not know existed. I wouldn’t have known where to look or what questions to ask. I was able to properly go through my dad’s things. I was able to figure out what his archival method was. 

It's been rewarding helping people know more about the hidden gems in African American history. Through helping other people, I’ve been better able to understand my own.

Everyone has a story. You just have to be brave enough to tell it.